>> in al jazeera america, i'm tony harris live from new york city. lawmakers in washington and the pressure is on to end the year on a productive note. congress has to vote on a list of issues on the agenda a massive defense bill. a massive farm bill but the biggest issue is the budget. joining me is a member of staff as president struggles with public opinion and his signature healthcare law.

five years after regulators voted to limit risky investments by banks. today's approval of the volcker rule will prevent another meltdown. general motors named mary bara giving her the honor of being first female ceo of any auto company. she'll replace daniel ackerson next month. i'm tony harris in new york city, "inside story" is next on al jazeera america. >> amiddlesbrough thamidst the a

tribute, the story of apartheid on "inside story." >> hello, i'm ray suarez. the world said goodbye and thank you to nelson mandela in an emotional memorial service in a stadium in johannesburg. southern africa, home to some of the most important mineral deposits were racked by civil war pitting sides against each other. murdering political opponents at home and in exile.

what south africa follow angola and mozambique in civil war with its large population and decades of bitterness, it created the potential of being the most dangerous of all. on this edition of "inside story" we'll be discussing nelson mandela and the process of negotiation that kept south africa from tearing each other apart. dignitaries, family, friends, and south africans of all color, thousands of mourner poured into the soccer stadium to celebrate the life of nelson mandela. >> to the people of south africa, people of every race and every walk of life, the world thanks you for sharing nelson mandela with us. his struggle was your struggle. his triumph was your try you tr.

in through speeches both white and black south africans mourned around the country together. >> there is nothing that we can do more for this country. i just want to say thank you to him. >> reporter: mandela's vision of today's rainbow nation was formed when he was an activist in the think of south africa's apartheid rule. his multi cultural embrace was evidence with his friendship circle as world leaders paid thanks some using his clan name, madiba. >> like the south africans who mourn madiba with their chants, we proudly carry african blood in our veins. >> we stand proud of you,

madiba, bringing venues of freedom, solidarity, equality, sacrifice, and human dignity. >> reporter: for all his life he has strived for the liberation of africa nations and championed the dignity of the african people. >> many honored mandela's crusade for con sol days. >> there are many people who feel-- >> in 1961 after years of stalled peaceful protests and leaders assigned mandela to mobilize a militant branch although not targeting civilians, an estimated 60 people died as a result of guerrilla warfare. mandela and others were sentenced to life in prison.

racial tension flared to new levels and the institution of apartheid began to unravel. >> these state of affairs can no longer be tolerated. >> reporter: the south african government secretly met with mandela to try to negotiate peace. in 1990 after years of hard bargaining mandela was released from prison. once freed he was immediately called upon to lead. townships were descending into anarchy as groups battled one another as well as the state. civil war was a real threat. for years mandela worked to end apartheid with the white president, frederick declerk. he had won a nobel peace prize for it.

in 1994 mandela was elected the first black president, and it was also the first vote he was allowed to cast. >> of our hopes and dreams that we have cherished. >> reporter: today, mandela's great granddaughter remembered him. >> the future without madiba. you are in our memory. you tower over the walls leaving streaks of light for us to follow. we salute you. >> one of mandela's most important legacies was the support for truth and reconciliation commission. thousands of victims and perpetrators, black and white, told their stories t t t t t t o

highest expectation of the majority. >> but much is still left to be done in the infant democracy. >> he told us that the promises of democracy would not be met overnight, and that the fears of the few would not be allowed to delay th. >> corruption and scandals rampant in the anc political party, and white-owned businesses are in lieu contra-tive partnerships with the investors. the gap between rich and poor is still one of the largest in the world. south africa's struggle would not have been denied by mandela. president obama touched on the human side of the global icon.

>> smiling and serene, detached from the tawdry affairs. he resisted such a life. [ cheering ] >> instead, madiba insisted on sharing with us his doubts and spirits. i'm not a saint, he said, unless you think of a saint as a sinner who keeps on trying. ♪ >> joining us to discuss nelson mandela's commitment to reconciliation and the transfer imagination of south africa into a multi racial republic in cape down glenda, director of

transformation services at the university of cape town. she was a commissioner on the south africaen commission. and dave stewart, chief of staff to former president declerk. here in our studio, senior scholar at the wilson center in washington, d.c. and author of "chained together: mandela, de clerc." my guests are very thoughtful people, the pause that you'll hear is not because they're taking a long time to think about it, but there is a little bit of a delay on the satellite with us this evening, so bear with us. dave stewart, in the 1980s the world had a not seen nelson

mandela for 20 years but there was terrible unrest, and in the soweto up rising there was greater resistence to the government's rule. were there people in the cabinet saying we have to talk to nelson mandela, and it would be a big mistake to let him die in jail. >> well, yes, for some time there were moves to engage nelson mandela in discussions. former president offered to release nelson mandela if he went to the transsky homeland. but nelson mandela in a very principled manner said no. he didn't want to be released under that basis. he wanted to be released into a free south africa. throughout the 80's members of the south african government were looking to dismount the

tiger of minority rule in which they found themselves. but it is a very danger process. >> was there a growing realization as the talks began that it was going to take a lot more. that nelson mandela's price at the end of the process was going to be higher than a lot of members of government were ready to pay? >> no, i don't think so. i think when f.w. de clerc announced th the road of negotiation on february 2, 1990, that this would end in majority rule. but it hoped that it would be majority rule with a strong constitution that would protect the rights of all south africans. >> let me go next to glenda,

give people a sense of what was going on in black communities in the early 1980's. was there starting to be some hopelessness that the world was watching what was happening in south africa, that there was going to be a bitter end to this story? >> thank you, ray, yes, of course, there was widespread depression in south africa particularly black townships with where people were opposing apartheid, and people were struggling against the oppressive rule and against the conditions, living conditions in black townships. and many people were rising up, particularly as you mentioned after the '76 up rising, the

soweto up risings, and into the '80's it became the height of the struggles, and people were becoming more and more impatient with the present government. with the oppression, widespread detentions, and people were in political prisons. we were also available to assist those who were imprisoned. we had to--to ensure that people were not taken to hospitals because that's where they were arrested as well. so there was widespread oppression. there was lots of anger around, but amidst all of that there was a sense of optimism that we would be able to end oppressive rule, and end apartheid.

>> david, during the 1960's there were extra judicial killings, there was the mas ma massacre, nelson mandela and his colleagues were sent to prison. but people weren't paying attention. in the 1970's came the soweto up rising and great unrest in black townships. in the 1980s as we were entering the final phases of the cold war, but we didn't know it yet, did people look at south africa in a different way? >> the apartheid movement was moving by leaps and grounds. particularly on the campuses of the united states people students were mobilizing, boycotting companies in the united states who were investing in south africa. here in the united states it was

still front and center issue for a lot of people. >> but one that grew from year to year? >> it did, all the way up to 1990 when the nelson mandela was finally released. but particularly here in the united states this became a real cause i celeb for young people, even some business organizations that brought pressure to bear on american companies to stop investing in south african stocks and companies. >> i want to talk about that divestment, and the pressure it might have made on the outcome. when we come back. we're going to take a short break. this is "inside story."

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mandela. dave stewart, just before the break, you heard david ottaway talking about the rising anti-apartheid movement here in the united states. was there a strong sense that the world was starting to withdraw its support for the government in pray tore i can't, and did that have a role in changing the orientation of that government towards its own future? >> well, ray, that was one of the factors. but there were other factors. to start with, the south african government had for many years been aware of the need to find a lasting solution.

the previous president thought he could do it through reform. but the reality is that it could not be reformed. it was not enough to change to the acceptance by all sides by 1987 that there could not be an armed revolutionary outcome or an armed military outcome. it showed that satisfactory outcomes could be achieved in negotiations with one's bitterest enemies provided there was an acceptable constitutional

framework. another factor was full of th fe berlin wall, and the collapse of communism. that has always been one of south africa's main strategic concerns. this all came together in the 19 1980s, and it opened the window for f.w. de clec. and they jump there had. >> we've spent so much time talking about the change of heart inside the south african government of the day, was there also a great difference of opinion among others in south africa about what the future would look like? were there some people who looked at post colonial countries in the rest of the continent and said we got to do our own thing. we have to break the grip that white south africans have on our economy, our government, our educational system, and do our

own black thing. while there were people on the other side who said no, no, after 300 years we all have a stake in whatever country this is going to become. you cannot have an afro-centric, a black-centric future? >> there were those who felt there we should have a non-racial society, bring people in different walks of life and different political opinion together, and we should you have a nation brought together by reconciliation and move forward. there were some people who felt that we should, as you put it, do our own black thing. but those were in the minority.

most people. most people who i came in contact with felt we should talk together. when the negotiations happened, the proposed talks of national government unity, there was a great sense that we could pull our nation together. many people struggled and suffered for many years believing that we can come together as a nation and move forward. >> we'll take a short break and when we return we'll talk more with david ottaway about the last days of apartheid in south africa, and our nelson mandela's influence shaped the post liberation state. stay with us.

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power of the people until we restore

>> welcome back. i'm ray suarez, and this is itsel"inside story." david ottaway, you don't always get to pick your history. were they lucky that it was nelson mandela and his comrades sitting across the table when it came time to talk about what the future country would look like? >> definitely lucky. you don't find too many statesmen like nelson mandela anywhere in the world. he really stabilized the country in this transition period when there were enormous tensions

between blacks and whites and really almost civil war in the two factions of the black community. and the leadership particularly the first two years after he got out, and there was enormous provecatioproveprovocation, ando go through negotiations and he really made the difference. >> glenda talked about the differences inside black opinion. did they realize they were talking to a man who didn't want to nationalize the economy and send the white people packing like they did in other african states. >> they hadn't heard from him in 27 years. they didn't even know what he looked like because it was prohibited to even public his

picture. when he got out it was 60's socialism jargon, but he soon got over that an realized if they were going to make a go of this, they had to make serious compromises on economic policy and bringing whites into comprehensive solution. >> glenda, oliver, walter, nelson mandela, they're all dead now. that generation has moved on. what is job one for south africa's leaders today looking forward? >> we have a big responsibility to take up the mantle that has been dropped by mandela, walter, and oliver. we have to be sure that their legacy continues.

that is a challeng challenge tor present government and future government, to ensure that their legacy continues. >> can they do it? can they satisfy the aspirations of the poor mass who is are not sure that the gifts of the revolution have really worked out? >> that's a big challenge. that's a very big challenge at moment. hold our government to account, and. >> glenda, thank you very much for joining us from cape town along with david stewart, david ottawa, that brings us to the end of this edition of "inside story." in washington, i'm ray suarez.

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